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 Metal
Name: Metal :D
Age: 27
Town:
Skill: Okay
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Team name: [10] Minardi Mugen-Honda
Team division: Division 3.5
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Date posted: Thursday 22 July 2010 23:28
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I think it's high time we all admitted something needs doing about the ever-rising problem that is being competitive in Div4. A lot of guys are now getting needlessly promoted through finishing their first division on their own, or from finishing third and not expecting the promotion.
Then when they get to the harsh reality of Div3 they are ill prepared and go straight back down... a whole season of DNFs and finishing last is hugely demoralising.
And then there's the school of thought where people get demoted on purpose and drop into an empty division - and spend all that season developing like crazy before going back up and surprising people with their pace. It all seems very unfair both to those in Div4 who didn't want promoting, and those in Div3 who have worked their way up properly and faced people who are twisting this loophole.
So what so I suggest? A major culling of empty divisions, squish everyone into fewer divisions. I recall when I first started, and Div4 was packed out. This is no longer the case, I think we'd struggle to pack out 16 divisions.
And then we're taking these barely 16 divisions worth of teams, and spreading them out over 64 divisions!
I would assume it's far too late to implement this now, but I would recommend it be high on the list of changes for Season 24.
Y'all know the drill, +1 if you like, -1 if you don't, let's get some discussion going on this because it's very clear that something needs to be done and we've ignored it for long enough. |
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 Cosmos
Name: Dan Silver
Age: 21
Town: pitwall.jezchat.com
Skill: Superb
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Team name: Jezchat Cosmos
Team division: Division 2.1
Team livery:
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Date posted: Thursday 22 July 2010 23:53
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Message count: 526
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| Whilst I agree that merging divisions to guarantee that (say) only the top 2 of each division get promoted, this may not be a problem for much longer... The number of inactive teams has been below 40% for quite some time, and hopefully with the implementations that (I think) Frank's planning, that may continue to drop some more... |
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 Overus
Name: Peter Ryan
Age: 24
Town:
Skill: Very good
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Team name: Ryan Racing
Team division: Division 3.13
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 00:05
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+1 good idea Metal, completely agree Div 4 teams need competition, its not just the whole joining PW and coming 3rd to be promoted, its also so that those that join and are alone in a div can actually enjoy it.
I know i shouldnt assume things but i will anyways, I assume that there have been a fair few members that have quit the game after just one season due to being alone in their division.
I highly doubt it can be a fun thing to do and when you're new you can find it hard to understand the game alone. my 1st season i was with 2 other people, although 1 quit a few races in, but still the other manager was really helpful telling me me some tips he had picked up. |
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Overus
Name: Peter Ryan
Age: 24
Town:
Skill: Very good
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Team name: Ryan Racing
Team division: Division 3.13
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 00:05
Message status:
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Message count: 7
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Tk56
Name: Lee Palmer
Age: 18
Town: Worcester
Skill: Superb
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Team name: [GG] AMR
Team division: Division 3.11
Team livery:
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 00:36
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I agree with the reasoning this method people are still going to be promoted unsecerily. Division 3 has 64 releation spots these need replacing. 64 Teams will be promoted from Division 4 no matter if there all in say 10 divisions or if there spread over 64 divisons.
What we need is a system where by its not an advantage for a experience team to go that low but somthing that doesn't screw up new guys (which is what you said). My views on this is we make Division 4 a training ground. If we only have Division 1, 2 and 3. If we make it so you can't be relegated out of division 3 unless the team has no manager or has a change of manager (new guy joines the team). Could even be part of declaring bankruptcy you autmoticly go to division 4. Rather than the current pyramid system division 4 only has enough divisions to full the teams.
Of course this leaves a problem with the current division 3 as it hasnt enough slots for all and so to accomodate future teams being added a dynamic system would need to be created. The two ideas for this are a dynamic pyramid that changes as time goes by (can be confusing as it would mean more division twos would have to be created) so probs not the best idea. Or the other method would be to expand division 3 as slots are craved for and for the promotion rules (16 promotion place). It would be done on the 16 cars with the most points from their division. So if its 20 division 3's, the top 16 points scorers (who came 1st) would go up.
I didn't mean to push my idea through over yours. Your idea would help competition and reduce the issue with Sandbagging but its just that issue with quick promotion still stands. |
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 mcdxcom
Name: Daniel Stevens
Age: 28
Town: Banstead
Skill: Superb
Supporter
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Team name: Skill Grand Prix
Team division: Division 3.1
Team livery:
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 03:35
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i agree just half the number of div 4 divisions and have 2 go up.
Also have a division note to new players that there is always the possibility of getting promoted early - so no surprises |
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 canis *Online*
Name: canis fortunatus
Age: 40
Town:
Skill: Very bad
Supporter
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Team name: [02] Bangor Racing
Team division: Division 4.13
Team livery:
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 03:53
Message status:
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Message count: 233
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| Would minimum and maximum development ratings for promotion and relegation (respectively) fix the 'sandbagging' thing as well as being promoted too early? Kinda like, having to qualify for the division. Can't promote until good enough, can't demote until bad enough. ? |
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ash71712
Name: ashley edwards
Age: 18
Town:
Skill: Bad
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Team name: Mclaren Mercedes F1
Team division: Division 4.47
Team livery:
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 11:53
Message status:
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Message count: 36
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| I have this problem. The team was only set up near the end of the season and i have be moved up to div 3. In testing i'm on top orders low fuel and i'm over 1 sec off the pace. |
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ash71712
Name: ashley edwards
Age: 18
Town:
Skill: Bad
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Team name: Mclaren Mercedes F1
Team division: Division 4.47
Team livery:
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 11:55
Message status:
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Message count: 36
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| Plus with the changes done to pitwall it is very hard for new teams. It harder to set one up now after the sponsors and drivers area got changed. |
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Roy123
Name: Roy Lee
Age:
Town:
Skill: Excellent
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Team name: Extreme Racing
Team division: Division 3.9
Team livery:
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 13:10
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+1 Metal
When i joined i had a nice stint in division 4, and i took those seasons to develope my car and try to be as ready as i could for division 3. When i arrived in division 3 i didn't have too much to worry about because i could fight for points. That doesn't seem the case now, its nice when a team is promoted from div 4 and is able to put up a good fight in div 3 but when those team's are relegated because they can't even finish a race its annoying.
I have seen people either quit or move to another team because of that and this game is about fun not about been forced into am position your didn't expect or want. I think reduce the div 4 from 64 departements to 32 with 2 team's been promoted from div 4 to div 3. Or as Frank has done this season (which is more work) manually fill div 4 departements.
Maybe making a script so new team's or team's relegated from div 3 will only go to departements in div 4 that already has other team's in, then move all team's from empty departements to fill up other departements in div 4 so that when the season ends and the script does its magic the empty div 4 departements remain emtpy and those with team's in remain full. |
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 mcgrath
Name: McGrath G
Age: 40
Town: Stanwell Park is my home
Skill: Superb
Supporter
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Team name: [10] Rapsow Racing
Team division: Division 3.8
Team livery:
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 13:48
Message status:
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Message count: 1896
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 mcgrath
Name: McGrath G
Age: 40
Town: Stanwell Park is my home
Skill: Superb
Supporter
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Team name: [10] Rapsow Racing
Team division: Division 3.8
Team livery:
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 13:49
Message status:
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Message count: 1896
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| I fully agree Metal. We need to compact the number of teams in div 4. We need atleast 3 or 4 competitive teams to run in each of them. And new comers could be spread out amongst the rest. |
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AnimalRacing
Name: Tom Bagley
Age: 27
Town: London
Skill: Superb
Supporter
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Team name: Animal Racing
Team division: Division 2.4
Team livery:
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 14:55
Message status:
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Message count: 1733
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I got promoted to div.3 after coming second in my first season of pitwall. It wasnt an issue for me, i believe this was because i started at the beginning of a season so was reasonably prepared even though i wasnt expecting to go up.
If it will make the game better then a cull of di.4 would be a good idea. |
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toybota
Name: Adam Eggbeer
Age:
Town: Devon
Skill: Superb
Supporter
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Team name: [GG] Team Destroyers
Team division: Division 2.3
Team livery:
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 15:22
Message status:
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Message count: 954
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| Maybe reduce the amount of relegation spots in division 3 as well (say 2 per a div) so then your going to have less teams moving up and down and less chance of being promoted unexpectedly. Would work well with the "less division 4's" idea. |
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 ivelak
Name: TurnipZ Effone
Age:
Town:
Skill: Very good
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Team name: [[10]] Roasted Turnips Motorsport Mayhem
Team division: Division 1
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 17:54
Message status:
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Message count: 742
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Why not ditch the level 4 altogether? Empty divisions with practically no racers arent the best promo for the game when you get bored at the start.
Instead we could expand the levels 2-3 with more subdivisions and more people going up and down, also down from div1. We also could have more teams in divisions ie. 16. That way everyone would get proper racing and competitions right from the start. |
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 Tuga
Name: Eduardo Vasconcelos
Age: 18
Town: Funchal
Skill: Average
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Team name: Hawk Racing
Team division: Division 4.62
Team livery:
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Date posted: Friday 23 July 2010 19:34
Message status:
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Message count: 58
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How about the number of semi divisions increases exponentially like
Division1 : Only 1 (well duh)
Division2 : Only 2 or 4
Division3 : 4 or 16, maybe 8 ?
Division4 : 16 or 64, maybe some other number...
Maybe you could use the formula: Division N has X subdivision (eg: Divison N.2, 2 is a sub division) by this formula X=2^(2N-2)
So division 1 has 1 sub (1.1) division 2 has 4 (2.1 and 2.2 and 2.3 and 2.4) division 3 has 16 and so on. Then there would be Division T or Omega or Newbie or whatchamacallit which would contain only teams with no managers at the start of the season. When a manager would bankrupt they would be insta sent to this division. IF a new manager chooses a team that is currently in that said division they could choose to remain there for the rest of the season (but finishing bonus and winning bonus would be smaller ofcourse, i'm thinking -20% ? ) or jump into a division directly above it that isn't full.
There could also be an option where managers could vote to kick a certain team of a division if that team was inactive. After a certain amount of votes are accepted, a GM or whoever you want would had to approve (so we wouldn't get rage kicks) and that team would be kicked into the Last Divison. This would be more of an option to remove inactive teams.
I think I'm done, so.... FLAME ON! |
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danhawkerz
Name: Dan Hawkridge
Age: 18
Town: York
Skill: Superb
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Team name: SauberHawk F1
Team division: Division 3.3
Team livery:
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Date posted: Saturday 24 July 2010 16:46
Message status:
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Message count: 96
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Can i go the other way, and suggest 5 divisions?
Now hear me out, but some Div. 3 are very highly competitive and very fast. Ive heard some have average parts of 80+%. How can someone after 1 season of racing be expected to compete against that?
So, have a smaller Div 3 and 4, but ensure they are both full, then have a rookie division, where after 1 season the team 'Promotes' into Division 4 regardless of where they finish? This would ensure a fun season first time round, then hopefully a decent second season which is full of teams? |
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darkstar
Name: Pete C
Age: 24
Town: manchester
Skill: Awful
Supporter
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Team name: Dark Racing
Team division: Division 4.9
Team livery:
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Date posted: Sunday 25 July 2010 01:21
Message status:
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Message count: 25
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| +1 i entered my first season late on and i think there was only one maybe two other teams.. now im in div 4.9 and theres 3 others i see two with full set of contracts. so at worst i could expect maybe to come 4th in the season , i wonder perhaps if it would be possible to include in the divisions, NPC teams that could provide a basic level of competition in the absence of other players. they would be able to set pace times and give you a measure to work against. just a thought |
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alexecho
Name: Alex Echo
Age: 32
Town:
Skill: Okay
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Team name: Flying Pigs
Team division: Division 3.11
Team livery:
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Date posted: Sunday 25 July 2010 17:02
Message status:
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Message count: 35
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Didn't we have this conversation last season? Didn't Frank say there is some logic in the number of divisions, and it can't be changed? Isn't that why he's moved people manually this year???
Having said that:
+1
I started in div 4 and promoted because I managed to finish one race, very, very slowly. I came last in every race the next season, and it made me nervous of division 3. When I got back to div 3 a second time, I was ready. I struggled, but, by the end of the season, I stayed up, and even got a few points.
I'm with the idea of only 2 demoting from each Div 3 - or even only 1 - really slow down the jump from div 4, so people are ready, and fill each div 4 group as much as possible, so you have at least six or seven teams per division! Make getting out of Div 4 really hard work! So you can have fun down there, then even the occasional racers can log on, with a poor car, and get something from the game, which may make them put more in, to get more out, and get hooked, and move up, and... :) |
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 wickiwi
Name: Jason Benseman
Age: 31
Town: Meonstoke, UK
Skill: Superb
Supporter
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Team name: [GG] Duel
Team division: Division 3.11
Team livery:
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Date posted: Monday 26 July 2010 17:43
Message status:
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Message count: 189
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Quoting danhawkerz
Can i go the other way, and suggest 5 divisions? Now hear me out, but some Div. 3 are very highly competitive and very fast. Ive heard some have average parts of 80+%. How can someone after 1 season of racing be expected to compete against that? So, have a smaller Div 3 and 4, but ensure they are both full, then have a rookie division, where after 1 season the team Promotes into Division 4 regardless of where they finish? This would ensure a fun season first time round, then hopefully a decent second season which is full of teams?
+1 to this idea
Been away for a week and catching up on stuff, I found myself thinking exactly the same when reading through this thread. div3 is quite big and even now a huge step up for a div4 team. The more divisions you have the better I say, more people get promoted and get encouraged to carry on. New challenges are a good thing so the more opportunities there are to get promoted and compete or be thereabouts in a new division the better.
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Alim
Name: Mark Freeman
Age: 34
Town: Leicester
Skill: Terrible
Supporter
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Team name: Seca Racing
Team division: Division 4.64
Team livery:
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Date posted: Tuesday 17 August 2010 12:34
Message status:
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Message count: 49
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+1
As a div 4 team I can agree something needs doing I am practically alone racing, I dont know how to fix it but something needs to be done |
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mcdxcom
Name: Daniel Stevens
Age: 28
Town: Banstead
Skill: Superb
Supporter
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Team name: Skill Grand Prix
Team division: Division 3.1
Team livery:
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Date posted: Tuesday 17 August 2010 17:43
Message status:
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Message count: 1249
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it has been suggested before but what is said above is defo the way forward!!
have less div 4's - say the same number as div 3, and only have one promote and one relegate. - this will have the added effect of it being easier to stay in div 3 even if way off the pace of the top teams!! |
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mcdxcom
Name: Daniel Stevens
Age: 28
Town: Banstead
Skill: Superb
Supporter
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Team name: Skill Grand Prix
Team division: Division 3.1
Team livery:
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Date posted: Tuesday 17 August 2010 21:27
Message status:
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Message count: 1249
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| by halving the amount of div 4 divisions your also doubling the amount of teams in the div 4's - so this would improve the racing as you want. |
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